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	<title>Comments on: Dearborn Mayor Responds to Police Dept. Criticism</title>
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	<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/</link>
	<description>Let&#039;s talk Dearborn</description>
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		<title>By: oldalldayschoolmom</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8223</link>
		<dc:creator>oldalldayschoolmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8223</guid>
		<description>I just read an article stating the dead criminal fired 36 shots before the FBI fired back...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read an article stating the dead criminal fired 36 shots before the FBI fired back&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JP Dearborn</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8211</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Dearborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8211</guid>
		<description>To &#039;Johnny Cakes&#039;:  To me, the delay in releasing autopsy results was in a vain hope that all the information would be in hand and all the studies done by the time it was released.  This to keep to a minimum the agitation from professional troublemakers.  Did it work?  Maybe not.  

I see your point about Conyers&#039; only caring about this case because it involved a Nation of Islam Muslim.  

I do have to disagree with &#039;A Bad Rap&#039; regarding whether the dead man was truly a Muslim.  Most Muslims won&#039;t agree with his view of hatred and violence against non-Muslims, I still believe.  However, a sizable local minority agrees with that entirely.  We know from public utterances that Muslim &#039;community leaders&#039; have no problem denouncing America, supporting terrorists or calling for the destruction of Israel.  No matter how violent or depraved, they support Muslims and hate non-Muslims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8216;Johnny Cakes&#8217;:  To me, the delay in releasing autopsy results was in a vain hope that all the information would be in hand and all the studies done by the time it was released.  This to keep to a minimum the agitation from professional troublemakers.  Did it work?  Maybe not.  </p>
<p>I see your point about Conyers&#8217; only caring about this case because it involved a Nation of Islam Muslim.  </p>
<p>I do have to disagree with &#8216;A Bad Rap&#8217; regarding whether the dead man was truly a Muslim.  Most Muslims won&#8217;t agree with his view of hatred and violence against non-Muslims, I still believe.  However, a sizable local minority agrees with that entirely.  We know from public utterances that Muslim &#8216;community leaders&#8217; have no problem denouncing America, supporting terrorists or calling for the destruction of Israel.  No matter how violent or depraved, they support Muslims and hate non-Muslims.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Cakes</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8209</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Cakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8209</guid>
		<description>Assail the metaphor all you want. And to hell with John Conyers, too (even though I never said anything about him and don&#039;t really know why you decided to &quot;leave me&quot; with that.)

My simple point is: the police should have been fully transparent in this matter and they have not been. The autopsy could have been released and it wasn&#039;t. I couldn&#039;t care less about any of the players involved here - I just believe in the free flow of information. And the Chief&#039;s request that this not be released - especially when so many people are seeking it - stands directly in the face of that idea. 

And it&#039;s counterproductive. All of this stuff was going to come out eventually anyway. Why fuel conspiracy theories by bucking typical protocol for incidents like this, especially when it already involves an unusually high number of shots fired?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assail the metaphor all you want. And to hell with John Conyers, too (even though I never said anything about him and don&#8217;t really know why you decided to &#8220;leave me&#8221; with that.)</p>
<p>My simple point is: the police should have been fully transparent in this matter and they have not been. The autopsy could have been released and it wasn&#8217;t. I couldn&#8217;t care less about any of the players involved here &#8211; I just believe in the free flow of information. And the Chief&#8217;s request that this not be released &#8211; especially when so many people are seeking it &#8211; stands directly in the face of that idea. </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s counterproductive. All of this stuff was going to come out eventually anyway. Why fuel conspiracy theories by bucking typical protocol for incidents like this, especially when it already involves an unusually high number of shots fired?</p>
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		<title>By: pdmom</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8208</link>
		<dc:creator>pdmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8208</guid>
		<description>Bad Rap.....wow, that was good.  I hope you are a Deaborn resident.  If so, how about running for Council...or Mayor!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bad Rap&#8230;..wow, that was good.  I hope you are a Deaborn resident.  If so, how about running for Council&#8230;or Mayor!!</p>
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		<title>By: Shady</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8207</link>
		<dc:creator>Shady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8207</guid>
		<description>You mean all those people had papa&#039;s who were &quot;A rolling stone&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean all those people had papa&#8217;s who were &#8220;A rolling stone&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: A Bad Rap</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8203</link>
		<dc:creator>A Bad Rap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8203</guid>
		<description>&quot;On the contrary, I am hoping for full responsibility and accountability. But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander: law enforcement needs to fully disclose what happened. &quot;

Actually, your &quot;goose and gander&quot; metaphor makes no sense.  Law enforcement will be required to fully disclose what happened.  AFTER THE INVESTIGATION IS FINISHED.  We don&#039;t have a right to know what&#039;s going on in an open investigation.  Neither does Conyers.  If he did, Monica never would have been caught.  

The other party in your &quot;goose and gander&quot; metaphor, on the other hand, does NOT have a duty to disclose anything.  In fact, the &quot;other side&quot; has a constitutional right to NOT disclose what might tend to incriminate them.  See how your &quot;goose and gander&quot; position doesn&#039;t hold water?

And I&#039;ll leave you with this:  What do Coleman Young, Sam Riddle, Monica Conyers, Ken Weiner, Willam Hart, Bernard Kilpatrick, Kwami Kilpatrick and Ed McNamara all have in common?  Give up?  They were all people who were never the subject of a federal investigation instigated by John Conyers.   

Yet these FBI agents must bear higher scrutiny?  Why?  Because they&#039;re less credible than the other people I mentioned?  If you make a living at hating your country, fomenting a separatist agenda, dealing in stolen merchandise, shooting at law enforcement agents and doing the bidding of a cop-killing penitentiary lifer like H. Rap Brown, guess what?  Bad things tend to happen to you.  

The words of Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong come to mind:  &quot;Dealin&#039; in death and stealin&#039; in the name of the Lord.&quot;  One reaps what one sows.  That&#039;s a standard theme in Christianity, Judaism AND Islam as far as I know.  This guy was about as truly Muslim as the Reverend Jim Jones was truly Christian.  Let&#039;s hear John Conyers admit that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On the contrary, I am hoping for full responsibility and accountability. But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander: law enforcement needs to fully disclose what happened. &#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, your &#8220;goose and gander&#8221; metaphor makes no sense.  Law enforcement will be required to fully disclose what happened.  AFTER THE INVESTIGATION IS FINISHED.  We don&#8217;t have a right to know what&#8217;s going on in an open investigation.  Neither does Conyers.  If he did, Monica never would have been caught.  </p>
<p>The other party in your &#8220;goose and gander&#8221; metaphor, on the other hand, does NOT have a duty to disclose anything.  In fact, the &#8220;other side&#8221; has a constitutional right to NOT disclose what might tend to incriminate them.  See how your &#8220;goose and gander&#8221; position doesn&#8217;t hold water?</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll leave you with this:  What do Coleman Young, Sam Riddle, Monica Conyers, Ken Weiner, Willam Hart, Bernard Kilpatrick, Kwami Kilpatrick and Ed McNamara all have in common?  Give up?  They were all people who were never the subject of a federal investigation instigated by John Conyers.   </p>
<p>Yet these FBI agents must bear higher scrutiny?  Why?  Because they&#8217;re less credible than the other people I mentioned?  If you make a living at hating your country, fomenting a separatist agenda, dealing in stolen merchandise, shooting at law enforcement agents and doing the bidding of a cop-killing penitentiary lifer like H. Rap Brown, guess what?  Bad things tend to happen to you.  </p>
<p>The words of Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong come to mind:  &#8220;Dealin&#8217; in death and stealin&#8217; in the name of the Lord.&#8221;  One reaps what one sows.  That&#8217;s a standard theme in Christianity, Judaism AND Islam as far as I know.  This guy was about as truly Muslim as the Reverend Jim Jones was truly Christian.  Let&#8217;s hear John Conyers admit that.</p>
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		<title>By: pdmom</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8195</link>
		<dc:creator>pdmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8195</guid>
		<description>Very interesting comments and I agree with all of them.  Oldalldayschoolmom, well put.  As the mother of Dearborn PD mom I was sickened at the article in the Free Press and when I heard Mr. Benzick going on and on about this very thing at a Council meeting.  What kind of Dearborn citizen can be so ridiculouos?  By the way, at the same meeting, a Muslim woman was asking the council to let her raise chickens on her garage.  But a dog is dirty.  Okay!  And Conyers? Don&#039;t even get me started!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting comments and I agree with all of them.  Oldalldayschoolmom, well put.  As the mother of Dearborn PD mom I was sickened at the article in the Free Press and when I heard Mr. Benzick going on and on about this very thing at a Council meeting.  What kind of Dearborn citizen can be so ridiculouos?  By the way, at the same meeting, a Muslim woman was asking the council to let her raise chickens on her garage.  But a dog is dirty.  Okay!  And Conyers? Don&#8217;t even get me started!</p>
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		<title>By: oldalldayschoolmom</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8194</link>
		<dc:creator>oldalldayschoolmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8194</guid>
		<description>&quot;Shady&quot; is right. 

I don&#039;t see or hear of any marches/news conferences/lawsuits involving the true victims of crime who are shot to death by criminals of the ilk of the dead felon with the blue sheets, while going about their everyday business:

- pumping gas
-selling gas
- visiting an ATM
- doing their jobs at Cheli&#039;s downtown
- closing up a restaurant only to be ambushed and killed

Shame on us for not starting a movement on their behalf.

Do you think Congressman Conyers would go to bat for them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shady&#8221; is right. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see or hear of any marches/news conferences/lawsuits involving the true victims of crime who are shot to death by criminals of the ilk of the dead felon with the blue sheets, while going about their everyday business:</p>
<p>- pumping gas<br />
-selling gas<br />
- visiting an ATM<br />
- doing their jobs at Cheli&#8217;s downtown<br />
- closing up a restaurant only to be ambushed and killed</p>
<p>Shame on us for not starting a movement on their behalf.</p>
<p>Do you think Congressman Conyers would go to bat for them?</p>
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		<title>By: JP Dearborn</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8193</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Dearborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8193</guid>
		<description>I am not sure of everything that &#039;Shady&#039; just said, but I think the gist of it is this:  If you pull a gun and fire at the FBI - even if the bullets are aimed at their dog, which they warned you was coming - you are going to be riddled with bullets.  The man was in the back of a truck, and so was in an elevated position in relation to the FBI agents.  The elevated position accounts for the fact that there were wounds in his lower trunk and privates.  And yes, as Shady says, just falling to the floor of the trailer could easily account for the broken jaw.

It also would be perfectly understandable that the agents would be furious at the man who had just shot their dog.  That man had every chance to give himself up and chose instead to pull a gun.  Also remember, he was recorded as saying he would not give up to the authorities, but would shoot it out with them.  Well, he tried, and we can all see what it got him.

The problem in Dearborn is that we have imams who are ranting in the press, and before crowds, that the FBI deliberately &#039;targeted&#039; this supposed cleric.  I say &#039;supposed cleric&#039; because the term &#039;cleric&#039; should be reserved for men of religion.  A man who pushes hate and violence is not a man of religion.  These imams who are pushing the idea that Dearborn-area Muslims should hate non-Muslims and should support jihadist ideas are also not worthy of the term &#039;clerics.&#039; They are political agents, not religious men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure of everything that &#8216;Shady&#8217; just said, but I think the gist of it is this:  If you pull a gun and fire at the FBI &#8211; even if the bullets are aimed at their dog, which they warned you was coming &#8211; you are going to be riddled with bullets.  The man was in the back of a truck, and so was in an elevated position in relation to the FBI agents.  The elevated position accounts for the fact that there were wounds in his lower trunk and privates.  And yes, as Shady says, just falling to the floor of the trailer could easily account for the broken jaw.</p>
<p>It also would be perfectly understandable that the agents would be furious at the man who had just shot their dog.  That man had every chance to give himself up and chose instead to pull a gun.  Also remember, he was recorded as saying he would not give up to the authorities, but would shoot it out with them.  Well, he tried, and we can all see what it got him.</p>
<p>The problem in Dearborn is that we have imams who are ranting in the press, and before crowds, that the FBI deliberately &#8216;targeted&#8217; this supposed cleric.  I say &#8216;supposed cleric&#8217; because the term &#8216;cleric&#8217; should be reserved for men of religion.  A man who pushes hate and violence is not a man of religion.  These imams who are pushing the idea that Dearborn-area Muslims should hate non-Muslims and should support jihadist ideas are also not worthy of the term &#8216;clerics.&#8217; They are political agents, not religious men.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Cakes</title>
		<link>http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/2010/02/07/dearborn-mayor-responds-to-police-dept-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-8192</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Cakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deepsaidwhat.com/?p=2907#comment-8192</guid>
		<description>Shady, 

I don&#039;t need to do any soul-searching, but thanks for the suggestion. However, I do take exception to your assertion that I am feeling sorry for &quot;those who take no &#039;responsability&#039; and accountability for &#039;there&#039; lives.&quot;

On the contrary, I am hoping for full responsibility and accountability. But what&#039;s good for the goose is good for the gander: law enforcement needs to fully disclose what happened. 

Really, what is concerning to me is how so many people have summarily rejected any notion that maybe, just maybe, the FBI didn&#039;t act totally kosher in this situation. Certainly, nothing like that has never happened in the past, but when you have an unbiased voice (the WCME) saying that he has never seen a guy shot that many times AND noting the whole delayed autopsy thing AND saying that the ballistics report was withheld from him by police (which is not SOP), well, I&#039;d say it&#039;s at least intriguing. 

I mean, doesn&#039;t that make you wonder? 

The other thing that is curious to me is how most of the posters here seem to know so much of what constitutes this guy&#039;s character. I am willing to bet that most, if not all, of what people know about Luqman Abdullah is based on media reports and - for some ambitious folks - from the actual criminal complaint produced by the FBI (which is what the majority of media reports consisted of).

Well, I have news that may shock you: the FBI ain&#039;t gonna make the subject of an undercover investigation look like a choir boy. There&#039;s a lot of time and taxpayer resources going into something like that, so they will make as many allegations as possible - many of which would be rejected in court - in an effort to secure an eventual conviction on some charge, any charge. But there was no day in court, and Abdullah never had the chance to refute those allegations (not that it isn&#039;t his fault, I&#039;m simply pointing out that a lot of the information out there is unproven allegations.)

Which brings me back to my point: just put the investigation out there in the open. Like another poster mentioned, Dearborn doesn&#039;t exactly have a great history when it comes to race-relations so, yes, there are heightened sensitivities to incidents like this. You can&#039;t just overlook that fact, and it&#039;s short-sighted on the part of the PD to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shady, </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t need to do any soul-searching, but thanks for the suggestion. However, I do take exception to your assertion that I am feeling sorry for &#8220;those who take no &#8216;responsability&#8217; and accountability for &#8216;there&#8217; lives.&#8221;</p>
<p>On the contrary, I am hoping for full responsibility and accountability. But what&#8217;s good for the goose is good for the gander: law enforcement needs to fully disclose what happened. </p>
<p>Really, what is concerning to me is how so many people have summarily rejected any notion that maybe, just maybe, the FBI didn&#8217;t act totally kosher in this situation. Certainly, nothing like that has never happened in the past, but when you have an unbiased voice (the WCME) saying that he has never seen a guy shot that many times AND noting the whole delayed autopsy thing AND saying that the ballistics report was withheld from him by police (which is not SOP), well, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s at least intriguing. </p>
<p>I mean, doesn&#8217;t that make you wonder? </p>
<p>The other thing that is curious to me is how most of the posters here seem to know so much of what constitutes this guy&#8217;s character. I am willing to bet that most, if not all, of what people know about Luqman Abdullah is based on media reports and &#8211; for some ambitious folks &#8211; from the actual criminal complaint produced by the FBI (which is what the majority of media reports consisted of).</p>
<p>Well, I have news that may shock you: the FBI ain&#8217;t gonna make the subject of an undercover investigation look like a choir boy. There&#8217;s a lot of time and taxpayer resources going into something like that, so they will make as many allegations as possible &#8211; many of which would be rejected in court &#8211; in an effort to secure an eventual conviction on some charge, any charge. But there was no day in court, and Abdullah never had the chance to refute those allegations (not that it isn&#8217;t his fault, I&#8217;m simply pointing out that a lot of the information out there is unproven allegations.)</p>
<p>Which brings me back to my point: just put the investigation out there in the open. Like another poster mentioned, Dearborn doesn&#8217;t exactly have a great history when it comes to race-relations so, yes, there are heightened sensitivities to incidents like this. You can&#8217;t just overlook that fact, and it&#8217;s short-sighted on the part of the PD to do so.</p>
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