What good is putting in a pool at Ford Woods that can handle more swimmers when kids cant get there? I grew up in Dearborn and there is something about having kids be able to bike to the pool, the neighborhood library or other places to stay out of trouble. What good does a pool 5 miles from my house for my kids? They have to wait for someone to drive them, wait around and bring them home? I would much rather pay to have the neighborhood pools open so kids can go during the day when it is HOT!

This is sad. I remember riding my bike to the pool practically everyday in the summer.

Why not start cutting duplication of services like the Dearborn Health Department? The same services are offered (and paid for out of our taxes) by Wayne County.

I grew up riding my bike to the pool everyday when I was a kid. For the last few years I have been taking my small kids almost everyday, I can[‘t drive 15 minutes to the pool everyday, thats crazy, we need to stand up as a community to SAVE OUR POOLS!!!!

One thing that has made Dearborn stand-out among communities is that for decades we have had far more services and amenities that most cities. This included our Health Dept., License Bureau, 43 parks, Camp Dearborn, 8 outdoor pools, 4 public libraries, snow removal and the list goes on and on.

All of these services an amenities cost a small fortune to operate and maintain. We had all of this due to the fact that Orville Hubbard purposely under assessed residential properties and the fact that in the past Ford Motor Company paid an overwhelming majority of the property taxes. Since the state stepped in decades ago, that has all changed.

The United States and Michigan are also in the worst economy since the Great Depression, Michigan’s unemployment rate leads the nation and Dearborn has been significantly impacted due to the above factors and because Ford has let 70,000 white collar workers go in the last 2 years.

In the meantime, the City of Dearborn has maintained all of these services and amenities with much less tax revenue, which drains our tax base. The City is now in the position that it has to cut somewhere, which most of us should understand because it is simply common sense. If the money is not there anymore to maintain all of the services and amenities we have become accustomed to, then cuts MUST be made somewhere.

Nonetheless, like most everyone on this blog, I think it would be a major loss for us to lose 6 of our 8 neighborhood pools. The fact that we had 8 public pools in neighborhoods that allowed children to swim within a few blocks of their home was a blessing and a huge asset to our city. These neighborhood pools allowed stay-at-home parents to go about their daily chores and perhaps have some time to themselves while their children had an inexpensive babysitter and were involved in healthy activities.

Like most of you, I am hoping that the city can find other ways to cut without closing these wonderful, neighborhood pools. I spent most of my childhood at these pools and for future generations to not be able to enjoy the same would simply be a shame and I truly believe that in the long run it would hurt our city more than it would help…

I would also be more than willing to spend a little more on taxes to keep the pools and parks open. I think in the next week or so the city officials will realize just how many people want to keep them open. Wonder who they polled?

Let’s see, how about cutting off picking our leaves up and save the pools? Why are we picking up leaves anyway? This admin needs to look at other areas. Council meeting Monday, April 4th if I’m not mistaken. We need to be there.

People who disagree with the mayors proposal are invited to attend the City of Dearborn Recreation Commission Tuesday March 30 2010 7 pm at the Dearborn Civic Center club room 1.

This mayoral proposal is a total farce. The estimated dollar savings to the budget do not pass the smell test. How is demolishing any less costly than the needed capital improvements. The proposed sharing of middle school indoor pools still require lifeguards and the additional building trades people required by union contracts. The school board legally cannot fund city rec programs. Does the usage of east side pools require the additional cost of rebuilding ford Woods pool. When board members of our neighborhood association requested these figures they were required to fill out foia requests. The city is not being honest to its own citizens. They obfuscate and manipulate information to serve their own purposes. If the Mayor was serious about shared sacrifice the first words of his State Of The City would have been I am taking a twenty percent pay cut effective immediately, as are all of my appointees. The city is not giving the citizens the information necessary to make informed decisions. All we have is their word and proposals. The same proposals that said the Montgomery Ward purchase was a good idea, that West Dearborn needs two parking structures, and the CSO would be done on time and under budget. What efforts did the Mayor make to keep these pools open? Did he write a single grant proposal, did he have a plan ready to request stimulus funds, did he seek neighborhood partnerships, did the Mayor request “Our best friend in congress John Dingell” write an earmark. What has made this a difficult decision for the Mayor?

To Michael Albino
Exutive members of the Snow Woods Neighborhood Assoc. Asked those questions last year. The request was denied and fill out a Freedom of Information Act request. So much for transparancy in govt. That being good luck Fat Jack on getting any voter approved bond proposal for your convention center. Balance the budget on the backs of childern, and then dazzel us with another whit elephant infrastructure proposal.

Next council meeting if April 19th at 7:00 PM.

Others make many valid points on here and it appears everyone who is writing is totally against closing 6 of the pools and I am in agreement with them.

Unfortunately our raw emotions and passion is not going to keep the 6 pools open. Only proper funding will keep the pools open.

Therefore, other than knowing what the yearly, itemized financials of operating and maintenance expenses along with revenues are, before any informed decisions can be made, we also need to know what the proposed expense will be to upgrade the Ford Woods and Levagood pools, which is not mentioned in the article.

If raising the daily and yearly rates would negatively impact the usage and income of the pools, the other option is raising property taxes. If either is not cost or public opinion feasible, there is one other option. Since the Dearborn Public Schools floated a bond for between $6-8 million to completely rebuild it’s 3 high school athletic fields, why can’t the city do the same for the pools? The city could pay monthly from the general budget to pay back the bond, as the schools do.

Using only the figures we were given of $3.8 million to upgrade the existing pools and the $132,000 in yearly operational expenses for all 8 pools let’s crunch the numbers as best as we can. Since we do not have the proposed expense to upgrade the Levagood and Ford Wood pools, let’s put that aside for now until we know the figures.

With 6 pool upgrades estimated to cost $3.8 million, we can assume operating expenses will go down, but we have no way at this point to know what operating expenses will be after upgrades. So taking $3.8 million let’s average it out to an expense of $4 million. With approximately 40,000 residences in Dearborn, this averages out to $100 per residence per year, or if it is a 5 year payback bond $20 per residence per year, a 10 year bond would be $10 per residence per year. If we include businesses in those figures, the amount would be less per residence. This is a minimal amount for residences to pay to keep all of our 8 pools open.

If taxpayers vote and the majority refuse to pay that and the daily and season passes are too cost prohibitive and usage would decrease, then the only other option I can think of at the moment is to float a bond. Is this being researched by our task force and/or city leaders?

My kids both learned to swim at Ten Eyck, and I learned at Hemlock. We could walk to the park to swim everyday. When I was a child, we had fireworks at local parks as well as ice rinks – and side walks were snow plowed. Of all those things, pools are the last thing left. I’m afraid we are about to lose one of the last special things about Dearborn. I’ll bag my own leaves, recycle my own trash, but please don’t take away our pools. We don’t even have nets on most of the basketball hoops, which would probably cost about $3 per year. West end shops are mostly empty. No idea why a young family would want to move here anymore.

On a side note, the center for performing arts now seems like a giant beautiful mistake. I can’t imagine it makes a profit. Did we really need 2 giant indoor pools? Wonder what percent of Dearborn people use them? I had to cancel my health club membership there as I could no longer afford it. How about a new slogan, “Dearborn, a City with nothing for people to do”.

After reading these posts, it is very clear that the people would like to keep their neighborhood pools. If it takes cuts elsewhere, so-be-it. The Center for Performing Arts, the Paid-Parking debacle, the “Fatburger Coming Soon!” signs, the vacant “Newman Property for Rent” signs – and all the rest. Cut the bi-lingual classes, offering free Halal meat lunches, whatever you have to cut – -but don’t cut the neighborhood pools. You are really striking a nerve w/the normally silent citizens of Dearborn, and you are going to lose the taxpayers, and replace them with renters very shortly, even more-so than there are now! This City is looking very Ghetto lately. DBnRes1 (above) pretty much sums up what the silent majority thinks, and we are not going to take it anymore!! This is it! People will cut their loses and move out, even if it is at a HUGE loss.

Although I would of course love to see the pools stay open, I’ll play devils advocate on this topic for a minute. To all of the people griping about what a crappy city this has become and threatining to move out.. go ahead.. where are you gonna go? Melvindale? Taylor? how about luxurious Lincoln Park or Redford? If you have the money to move to places like Northville, Royal Oak, or Troy right now then more power to you, however these cities are shutting down public services, laying off police officers and are in a much bigger financial mess than Dearborn. Closing these pools would really suck but Dearborn still has better services and more to do than almost any other comparable city in this area. Reading alot of these coments, I can’t help but be reminded of the cliche’ saying “the grass is always greener..”

Ask a Dearborn cop if they live in the city. Most of them have moved out because they see, even more than we do, what this Mayor and Police Chief are doing to OUR city. We will be like Detroit in no time at all. The chief is from Detroit and seems hell bent on making our police force into Detroit’s. They see the writing on the wall and also see what goes on with the Mayor and the Chief. We can take it back, we can take the mall back too. The schools, the parks, the “business” district. It’s disgusting. Hey Mr. Mayor, rather than sticking your nose into everything, why not concentrate on Mayoral duties. I find it very interesting too, that everyone I know who works for the city but lives here, feels they cannot speak out about the waste and corruption they see. What does that tell you?

“What good does a pool 5 miles from my house for my kids? They have to wait for someone to drive them, wait around and bring them home? I would much rather pay to have the neighborhood pools open so kids can go during the day when it is HOT!”

Sounds like you would rather have everyone else pay so you don’t have to bother driving your kids 10 minutes to a different pool. How about the rest of us? Maybe we don’t want to pay for your convenience of not having to drive 4 miles to a pool.

“That’s quite the distance and I can’t see my own future children taking swimming lessons if I have to go all the way there every morning in the summer.”

Levagood is only 4 miles away from Ten Eyck. That’s less than a 10 minute drive. Not a big sacrifice to make for the kids you don’t even have yet to go swimming for a third of the year during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

“For the last few years I have been taking my small kids almost everyday, I can[‘t drive 15 minutes to the pool everyday, thats crazy, we need to stand up as a community to SAVE OUR POOLS!!!!”

Sounds like you don’t work outside the home. Why exactly CAN’T you drive 10 minutes to either Levagood, Ford Woods or the Community Center? Start a car pool with other parents who can’t make the long and arduous journey all the way over to the other side of the moon. If you get 4 other parents, your small kids can go to the pool every single day and you only have to pack provisions for one journey per week. My God, some of you folks sound like you’re being forced to travel The Trail of Tears over 4 miles or less because you won’t have a pool across the street.

“People move into Dearborn with children because of the fantastic parks and pools. Without them, why should people move here??? With today’s crime and bad people stalking our children, it is nice to know you have a pool and park close to home.”

So the crime and bad people will get your kids if they’re 4 miles away from home being supervised by someone other than you, but not a half a mile away from home ? How does that work? How do they know?

“DBnRes1 (above) pretty much sums up what the silent majority thinks, and we are not going to take it anymore!!”

Right. That’s why O’Reilly had virtually ZERO competition the last time he ran for mayor and why he was elected with something like 90% of the vote and why the only council member who lost his seat was the one who lived in Florida….because of what the “silent majority” thinks. Are you serious? People want the city to be run fiscally responsibly and if that means some people might have to go FOUR WHOLE MILES to the nearest taxpayer-funded pool for 4 months out of the year, that’s what the “silent majority” will support.

“If indeed Ten Eyck Pool should be closed, it gives me that much more cause to move.”

Like Jason implied, if you could have sold your house and moved to a nicer suburb, you’d already be there. I doubt you’re sticking around for the nearby pool or out of a sense of neighborhool loyalty. Will you be able to sell your house for what you owe on it? Or will you just walk away from the mortgage like so many others? Aren’t we in this predicament in the first place because so many people bought more house than they could afford, or refinanced their 1200 square foot bungalow for over $200,000.00??? Or the ones who speculated on real estate, either residential or commercial and who now are walking away from their debt because either they can’t pay the piper or because their property is no longer a good investment? THOSE are the people that I’m angry with. Nobody seems to direct any indignation at them though. That’s the reason we can’t afford the pools anymore, right? The sudden and drastic drop in property values and property taxes? We ALL know people who have done this, don’t we? Just about every block in the city has at least one. Not just the ones who can’t afford to make the house payment anymore, but the ones who CAN afford the payment but don’t WANT to pay any more on what is now a bad investment….so they just walk away and destroy our neighborhoods, city and country.

I’m sure I’ll be subjected to the usual ad hominem attack of being “part of the administration” because I’m not on board with everyone here who wants to keep subsidizing public pools for everyone who currently lives near one, but how about giving me some LOGICAL arguments for keeping the pools open as property taxes plummet and the economy goes even farther south in the shadow of some of the worst inflation we’ve ever seen. Because that’s what we’re in store for after historically Democratic Dearborn put Obama in office to spend and tax. You think things are bad now? Just wait until we’re hit by the inflation and skyrocketing interest rates that are headed our way. Pools and leaf pickups and Homecomings will be the LEAST of your worries if the city and country doesn’t get spending under control. But keep deluding yourself into believing that the “silent majority” wants to pay for a public pool within 2 blocks of every house in the city and free leaf pickup.

I’m really sick of the “gimme, gimme, gimme” mentality in the beginning of the worst financial crisis since 1928! Yes, I said “the beginning” . Free lunches for kids who get dropped off to school in $40,000.00 cars, free pools within a half mile radius of every house in the city, free leaf pickup, free entertainment, a free pass for those who don’t want to pay their mortgage anymore…Free passes for people who are defrauding the taxpayer on all kinds of benefits……This stuff is NOT free. Someone has to pay for it and we residents are currently NOT paying for it, given the drop in property values and taxes. That’s why you might have to make more of an effort to get to a taxpayer-funded pool.

I work three jobs to afford my mortgage, my FORD truck and the pool I put in the backyard for my kids. I don’t want to pay more so some of you can walk across the street to a pool instead of driving or riding a bike four whole miles to get to a free pool when the current state of property values and tax revenues don’t support that particular public luxury anymore.

Sorry to say…but closing pools in Dearborn is the least of our troubles.
I couldn’t even begin to list everything. Cranky In The West End said a mouthful.

According to the Dearborn Press and Guide:

Commuter rail line delayed indefinitely

I’ll have more to say if Deep posts article.

Yes, we really need the indoor pools for those of us that don’t have kids, pay the same taxes you do for schools we will never have use for.

When were the pools in Dearborn built? During the prosperity following WWII? We aren’t in anywhere NEAR the financial or social position we were then. How many pools do you think Dearborn built AFTER the prosperity of the 1920’s and up to WWII? How about none? People were too busy trying to survive in an era when the government (meaning me and you) wasn’t trying to finance a house for people who had no business owning one, paying for their cars (cash for clunkers anyone?), food, rent, self esteem, illegal drug habits and as many kids as they could have, bilingual education, health and welfare for illegal aliens.

The reason it’s such a big deal that the city is closing down pools it can’t afford any longer is because of the socialist entitlement attitude which is only going to get worse. Gimme, gimme, gimme. And it’s not just that people want to be able to swim in a public pool, it’s that they want to do it without any INCONVENIENCE! “Gimme” a break. Levagood, plus a plan to renovate Ford Woods, plus indoor public pools at schools, plus a beautiful taxpayer-funded water park in a new civic center. But that’s not enough. While trying to weather an historic financial crisis with no end in sight, we want more. We can’t raise our kids properly unless they can walk down the street to the pool where someone else will watch them. It’s too much to expect us to drive or (gasp) make other arrangements to access a public pool 4 miles away or less. Get it through your heads. There is not going to be another WWII to create jobs and jumpstart the manufacturing base that we no longer have like there was to end the last Great Depression. We are in deep, deep trouble and are in for massive inflation and interest rate hikes if we don’t stop spending money we don’t have. What’s going to happen when the stock market crashes again and interest rates start soaring? “Nothing as long as I can walk to a pool down the street…..”?

Regarding Allen Park: How many public outdoor pools do they have? How big is the city? For how many years did they over-assess their commercial tax base? How old is their infrastructure? How old is their housing stock? How many CSO projects did they have to handle? How many kids does their school district have to deal with who speak English as a second language? For how long did Henry Ford and Orville Hubbard project their paternalism on Allen Park? Where is their “downtown”? A couple blocks on Allen Road? Where is their border with the City of Detroit? They don’t have one?

You can’t compare Dearborn to a bedroom community like Allen Park without giving both places the same challenges to overcome.

To Cranky in the West End
BRAVO!! Couldn’t have said it better myself. We need more people like you to speak up and maybe even run for office.

Regarding “kay says” message on 03-30-10.

Police officers and all public employees in the State of Michigan were granted the ability to move outside of the jurisdiction of their employers in 1999 (State Law-MCL 15.607). Many contracts allowed employees to move out of their cities many years prior to the state law. Collective bargaining contracts may specify that the public employees may live no further than a certain distance so that they can respond to an emergency within a reasonable time frame (if stated or defined, is usually 20 or so miles away).

Sorry to say that the present Chief and Mayor had nothing to do with police officers moving out of the City. Dearborn allowed police officers to move out of the City in the mid 1970′s. Initially, many employees could not afford the cost of Dearborn housing (in the more desirable areas) that they could find in other cities for much less money. So they started to incrementally move out of the City to more “desirable” or affordable areas in the late 70′s. The mass exodus of police (and other employees in Dearborn and elsewhere) came between 1975 and about 1988. Many new officers were hired from 1986 – 1988, which signaled a change in department demographics. Most of those hires in 1986-1988 already lived outside the City, and continued to do so after they were hired. Dearborn and other police agencies had problems finding good qualified recruit officers that continue to this day, and had to recruit outside of the City. It used to be that many police/fire candidates were born and raised in Dearborn in sufficient numbers that the ranks could be maintained. This is no longer the case, but it is not unique to just Dearborn. There also seemed to be more of a sense of community years ago, which has changed for various reasons. It is very difficult to find good quality candidates for police officers, and the competition for the very good candidates is fierce. Far too many of the X and Y generation police candidates are nothing more than “whining, sniveling malcontents” that have strayed far from the code of ethics they were supposed to have ingrained into their professionally moral fiber while in the police academy. Many officers want to live outside their employer city so they don’t have to come in contact with those that they have arrested, ticketed or had contact with on the job. This has happened with the breakdown of society as police over the past couple of generations. Police are not viewed with respect or as a legitimate authority figure any longer, and are good targets for malcontents to go after. It used to be that police officers could live in their communities unhindered, but that is not the case any longer with all the kooks and crackpots out there. Even to good “Joe” citizen next door neighbor wants to take a crack at a police officer nowadays. Everyone loves a fireman, but they don’t want to see a police officer.

The problems in the police department started under the previous mayoral regime when the previous mayor allowed his appointed chief to stay well beyond his effectiveness as a leader. That prior police chief initiated poor decision making and promoted the “good ole boy syndrome” that ultimately had severe consequences. That Chief severely hurt the department in nurturing future command leadership that ultimately became very ineffective. Lawsuits, promotions of ineffective or unqualified command officers created poor morale and took hold of what once was one of the most respected police departments in Michigan. The police department continues to have some of the problems and difficulties as a result, even though the prior Police Chief has been gone a decade. In time, the police department may again become a premier police agency. There may be problems with our current mayor and the police department, but at least the Mayor made a good decision to bring in a Chief from outside the City. Bringing in someone from the outside has allowed some better review of internal policies, procedures and problems, and some new ideas can be initiated.

Don’t get me wrong, the Dearborn Police Department is still a fine department, with many excellent officers. However, there have been too many problems that have come to light in the past 10-15 years, such as internal employee lawsuits, demotions of supervisors, and officers arrested or fired for various criminal acts that have caused a real blemish to the moral character of the department. The Dearborn Police Department has had some very real problems that still need to be dealt with, but started well before the present Chief and Mayor. It took many years to bring real harm to the department, and will take a long time to bring it back again to an elite status, but it can be done.

“Keep Dearborn Clean says:

March 31st, 2010 at 10:30 am
Cranky, you are just that!! (:<!!). With neighbors like you, who needs neighbors?"

I believe I predicted the usual ad hominem attacks from people who can't come up with a locigal reply. Thanks for not disappointing. And yes, I agree that Homecoming should be discontinued OR funded only with private donations. NOT to "save the pools" but rather to "save the city". You're not going to be able to keep all those pools open and up to date with the money the city makes from pulling out of Homecoming.

Incidentally, I don't have a plastic pool, I have a nice newer above-ground pool with a deck and my FORD truck is 3 years old and paid for. I don't owe more on my house than what it's worth and our kids go to private schools while my wife and I both work and pay school taxes just like you (assuming you own your house). Do you drive a Ford?

As far as moving, do you own your house? How much do you owe on it? Are you going to sell it? When and for how much, and to which suburb are you going to move to get the things you can't get here? And how much are you going to pay for a house? You might welcome a fiscally conservative "hillbilly" like me as a neighbor. Especially one with a pool when you can't walk to a city pool anymore and refuse to drive to Levagood, Ford Woods, the Center or a neighborhood school.

“John Higgins says:
March 31st, 2010 at 3:30 pm
We don’t need Cranky to run for office. The idea of keeping neighborhood pools is the same as keeping neighborhood schools. You want the kids to be able to bike or walk to the pool, without crossing busy streets. And, if you look REALLY CLOSELY, you will see that I, and others, stated that we are willing to PAY for these pools. What entitlement mentality can exist if we are willing to pay a special tax to have the pools? Cranky, you even threw in the word ’socialist’ in your rant. No limits on your popgun, eh? You want to shoot at everything.”

You and how many others are willing to pay a special pool assessment John? To staff, repair and maintain facilities built in the 1950′s? Where is the pool to bike to without crossing busy streets for people who live east of Telegraph, north of Cherry Hill? It’s going to cost $4million to repair those pools that are slated to close. How many people are you going to get to sign on the dotted line to come up with $4 million PLUS operating costs? Oh, PLUS, you’re going to pay to design, install and staff a pool over by Howard School too, right? So those kids can get to a neighborhood pool without having to get a ride from a parent or without having to cross a busy street?

Yes John, “socialist”. That’s the entitlement mentality that has been creeping into our society and culture. Everyone likes to talk about “rights” and “needs” but nobody wants to talk about responsibility. Like the responsibility to spend wisely, consume responsibly, borrow responsibly. Spending $4million dollars on neighborhood pools right now just so SOME kids can get to the pools without crossing a busy street because their parents can’t be bothered to drive them to a centrally-located pool is not a responsible use of public money in my opinion.

If you are trying to save money by closing pools, do not build any more. I am sick and tired of living in West Dearborn using aging facilities while East Dearborn constructs brand new schools, Performing Arts Center, now a new pool? Who’s pockets are getting lined to push this forward.

I am sure I’ll be labeled a racist but another point about the pools are the huge personal hygiene issue caused by Islamic swimwear. You cannot tell me that lifeguards can tell if the under garments under this swimwear is everyday undergarments or ones designed for swimming. I have pushed this issue and no one wants to touch it. This is a double standard. I was treated like a Leper at Camp Dearborn wearing cut off shorts within 10 feet of the pool while fully clothed individuals are swimming.

look regardless how anyone feels about the pools, the situation is this, our city leaders have absolutely no moral high ground on this issue. No one is saying “keep the pools open at all cost” What the people want is transparency in government. If the numbers dictate closure of the pools so be it. So far all the citizens have been told is “We have a $20 million deficit we must act now”.

This proposal actually could very well end up costing much more than the status quo. Our Mayor was city council president when he authorized a nearly 4 million dollar purchase of worthless land from a serial grifter and international fugitive. This Mayor repositioned a department head who had four people under his leadership investigated by the FBI. one of whom was convicted. In addition to his abysmal track record on downtown development, His leadership failure on the Combined Sewer Overflow, and his continued financial support of tax funded electioneering at homecoming. Why should anyone take at face value anything this mayor says

This proposal devalues homes within walking distance to the pools, this is an objective fact. Why should a citizen losing additional home value subject himself to this proposal without proper disclosure from the mayor?

“Cranky” would you trust a Mayor with this track record, without due diligence? especially after he tabled this issue until after the election. This entire deal is shady and until I am proven wrong by objective facts I will continue to push for walkable, sustainable, children friendly communities. I will do this because this is what is good for our children, our community, and the competitiveness of our existing housing stock.